Vintage Faith

Baptisms, Members, Attendance, Gatherings... Multi-Sites

I have been at the wonderful Outreach Convention the past 3 days. I will post more about that next. It was great as usual and one of my absolute favorite conferences because of the people and the focus.

I did have an experience that I was very amused and intrigued by while there. I observed two pastors who were friends and seemed like that hadn't seen each other for a while. As they greeted each other and began talking the one asked the other the question "How many you got now?"

Now, this in the past could have been talking about number of members of the church. Or number of people attending. Or perhaps number of baptisms. Or could have been asking about number of worship gatherings.

But as I listened, they were talking about how many "sites" as in a multi-site church.

Back to momma to talk about mission

I spent last night and today speaking at Santa Cruz Bible Church at their Saturday night gathering and two Sunday morning ones. Santa Cruz Bible Church is the church I was on staff with for many years as high school pastor, and then as young adult pastor. Santa Cruz Bible Church planted Vintage Faith Church in 2004. So it was quite fun being back. They are our mother church, so to speak.

It was the first week of their three week "Missions Conference" which happens every year there (thus all the world flags hanging as the stage backdrop in the photo here). I was asked to come back and speak on the "local" aspect of missions and the next two weeks will be globally focused.

My main thrust was showing from the Scriptures that the very first thing Jesus said to His disciples in Matthew 4:18-19 was "Come, follow Me and I will send you out to fish for people." He didn't say "Come follow Me, and I will keep you huddled with other Christians singing songs feeling safe together" or "Come follow Me, so you can hang out with primarily Christians and complain about how terrible the world is getting. or "Come follow Me so you can have nice theological discussion with other Christians and deconstruct the church". 

The very first time we see Jesus talking to and calling His disciples, it was all about being be sent out (not inward) to make new disciples. So the first impression He gave His disciples was emphasizing that following Him meant being focused on other people who didn't know Him yet.

Question about defining marriage

This is a sincere question. I raised it today with some staff at our church and talked about it a few days ago with a friend of mine. It probably can't be answered or discussed like it should be via the context of a blog. But this is a question I have not heard asked yet. It is about the definition of marriage when moving beyond what I would consider a New Testament biblical definition of marriage between one man and one woman. I am not thinking of civil unions and human rights here between same sex committed relationships which I see as different. I am specifically thinking about the definition of "marriage".

In California with Prop 8 and the definition of marriage being voted on soon, a question keeps coming to my mind. This is truly not one of the "slippery slope" kind of questions that is usually used in painting very extreme conclusions. I don't see a lot of rationality in most of the "slippery slope" arguments and defenses that usually are used. I think this is rational and real question, and not an extreme one.

My question is this. If we aren't using the New Testament to define marriage as between one man and one woman (which I personally believe is the definition of marriage), then why wouldn't we also allow polygamy? If we don't use the New Testament as our grid for defining marriage, and we move beyond the defintion of marriage being a man and woman to it also being a man and a man or woman and a woman - then why not a man and woman and woman? Or a woman and a man and a man? Or a man and a man and a man? As long as they are consensting adults, and they are of legal age and are not biologically related - then what basis of argument would there be not to also allow polygamy to also be acceptable as a definition of marriage as we would with same sex-marriage between two people?

Thinking about Satan and other thingz

  I am prepping today for a sermon in "The Clash" series I am teaching this Sunday. The topic is "Satan" and I will raise issues such as whether Satan is based on mythological evil personas of pre-Christian religions, and what the Old Testament and New Testament does or doesn't say about Satan (despite what Christian culture, may have created about Satan). I will be doing some deconstructing of both the pop culture version of Satan as well as decsontructing what the Christian sub-culture version of Satan is and then reconstruct from Scripture. So it will be interesting.

Something I love about Vintage Faith Church is diving into topics like this and also not being afraid to directly teach about the reality of hell and in this case the reality of Satan. This topic about Satan was a question that was part of the survey results which shaped our current series.

Last night, Josh Fox and I just got back from Los Angeles where we had a 2 day meeting with Erwin McManus, and Eric Bryant. Dave Gibbons from New Song Church also met with us for part of it. I will write more about it later, but it was a great, great time together and talked through many issues about what this new network Scot McKnight and I have been blogging a little about. We met the past two days to further focus on what it is and isn't, some basic plans and rough timetable etc.  I could not be more thrilled seeing evangelism and mission as what is motivating us and pulling this network together. And as repeatedly was stated in our conversations the past two days, how there will be a strong focus on a high view of Scripture, a passion for evangelism. We all agreed again about having the Lausanne Covenant as our theological common and agreed upon basis and statement since it is globally created and multi-denominationally created. I will post more more soon about the the meeting and the network. We will even have a place to sign up for email updates for those interested in getting news about it's development and giving input and asking questions etc. (which you can always do here). But it was humbling hearing Erwin and Eric's heart the past 2 days for evangelism and it is very, very contagious.

The Adventure of Church Leadership

I am sitting in a coffeehouse in Portland, Oregon right now. I am here for 2 days and having a meeting with George Fox Seminary later today, speaking at a conference tomorrow, and hanging out with my brother who lives here. Yesterday was a really fun day at Vintage Faith Church as we wrapped up the last week of our very long series going through 1 Corinthians. Next week we start our "Clash 2" series. It is The Clash "2" because about 2 years we taught a series "The Clash: Where Church and Culture Collide" and addressed topics that people from the church turned in as ones they are faced with responding to with people outside of the church. So we did the same thing again and came up with about 10 different questions and we narrowed them down to 5 for this next series. I teach the first two weeks and look forward to studying for this one. The original "Clash" series, we took the cover of the band "The Clash"'s London Calling album (which they took from an Elvis album) and made it our series graphic.

                                                                                                                                                                       The The breakdown for The Clash 2 is:

October 19 - Doesn't Science and the Bible conflict and show the Bible is not credible?

October 26 - Why do Christians believe in a Satan, and not see it as mythological?

November 2 - Religion, Politics and the Election

November 9 - Does God judge those who have not heard of Jesus or believe in other religions?

November 16 -  How can Christians not see the Bible manuscripts as both unreliable and mythical?

Religulous: Lee Strobel, John Walter and Compassion International needed

I went with my friend Tim to see the new movie "Religulous" today. Religulous is the Bill Maher film that is about Bill traveling around the world and interviewing leaders and average people about religion. I am guessing that 75% of it focused on Christianity, but he also covers Judaism, Scientology, Mormonism and Islam.

We went to the matinee and it was fairly crowded for a matinee show on a weekday (Friday). At the end of the film people even applauded, which is unusual also. It wasn't because the film was over and they were glad it ended. They applauded out of appreciation and agreement.

The film was really well done, and it went by very fast. Bill Maher is trying to show how "religion" in general is messed up and even very damaging (which it can be). He tries to make his point in a very, very humorous way. But it also was very predictable in what it covered. I have either listened to or read most of the arguments he made in the film, so what was in the film itself wasn't really new information.

The Faith Tones

I saw this album cover today on my friend Mark's blog (Boing Boing). Mark was my roommate in college and was the bass player in the band I was in for many years.

Anyway, thought this was very striking hair from this 1960's Christian album. Perhaps this album title will be the required motto and their hairstyle the required one for the evangelism-focused network we are forming.

 

Jesus at The Catalyst

   I had quite fun over the past couple of days. It started on Friday night as I got to go see one of my favorite bands "X" at The Catalyst nightclub here in Santa Cruz. I recently was joking with Brad and Ben from the Catalyst (the leadership conference) that our small club in small Santa Cruz beats them in a Google search for the word Catalyst. I went on Friday night to The Catalyst with a non-church going, non-Christian friend of mine whom I met when he was working at a local coffeehouse. We went out earlier before the show and hung out downtown and then went to the show and had some fun discussion. X was really great. Went up to the side balcony and watched them from there.

The Catalyst is the club where I have seen so many bands over the years I have lived in Santa Cruz. Something that is unique in The Catalyst is that right above the main entry on the inside (so you see it as you walk out) is a statue of Jesus holding a guitar. It is lit up with some neon also. But every time you leave The Catalyst, there is Jesus above your head. At night it is lit up with pink neon, in the daytime, He isn't quite as pink.

I don't know the origin of the Jesus statue holding a guitar, I will have to ask them sometime. I think it is a Fender Stratocaster Jesus is holding. After the X show was over, I went and found another friend of mine I saw inside. I have known him for several years and I have given him a Bible once. So I found him after I said goodbye to my other friend and within a few moments he got fairly serious. He ended up telling me that "he is ready". I asked him "ready for what?" and he shared that he wants to have the "peace" we have talked about. He then said, "I am ready for Jesus Christ". So hearing that, I was pretty thrilled as we have had conversations about this over the years. We are going to meet up and talk more soon. But there we were at midnight chatting about Jesus at The Catalyst. With Jesus and his guitar nearby.

 

The Abbey: Coffee, Art and Music Lounge

Two months ago, Vintage Faith Church opened up "The Abbey" which is a coffeehouse, art and music lounge. We rebuilt what was a fairly hideous looking room (what was known as the "fellowship hall") in the church building we are in. We are still working on an outdoor courtyard seating area and not done with everything yet, but we opened it part-time during the week. Sara and the team has been doing a wonderful job in getting it all going. Hopefully it will be a place for students from the campus to use for studying and wi-fi and we will be having movie nights and there are bands playing and different local artists displaying art. We hope to see it open full time as soon as we are able to.

 

The main local County daily newspaper about a month ago had the front cover feature story about The Abbey right with a very positive article. Mainly about church breaking down stereotypes in the community. So that was a very cool thing to see happen.

Yesterday, the local weekly alternative entertainment newspaper had a "Back To School" edition for all the college students coming back. We didn't know they were doing it, but they had the cartoonist draw out local coffeehouse recommendations and The Abbey was in it. Quite humorous as it shows the barista as a nun and a student kneeling and praying for their finals. I was so relieved and glad to see that because The Abbey is known as part of a church. So my fear would have been it being portrayed with a screaming preacher or the usual type of evangelist caricatures with signs about hell or whatever it might have been. The artist is well known in this area and a very good artist, but he is known for not holding back punches in what he draws about. This cartoon was his normal weekly one in the paper which covers local political and local news. One of his cartoons is in the They Like Jesus But Not The Church book.

Another big change for me

After 12 years, I have made the switch from Fiber Grease to LayRite Super Hold. LayRite is "scientifically formulated" and also is "Hy-Sheen".

This is another big change in my life that I am now emotionally processing and getting used to. But I needed to get back to the original Hy-Sheen formula.

My dilemma is that LayRite doesn't come in a 3 oz. canister, so it isn't able to go carry-on in planes. For travel I will still need to use Fiber Grease 3 oz. until LayRIght SuperHold comes in a 3 oz. option. 

The Emerging Church: 5 years later - The definition has changed

I am going to write a couple of posts on the book "The Emerging Church" and what has changed or not from my perspective since the 5 years it came out. Each post will address something I have learned or has changed or has stayed the same and has been further affirmed.

The first one I will write about and one big change from 5 years ago (or actually 6 or 7 when I was actually writing the book) is that there is a different context and definition regarding the term the "emerging church" that has developed since then. For some, this may be uninteresting and may not care - but for others it is significant, especially if you have been in the midst of it all and seen the change of definition happen.

Andrew Jones blogged about this very thing last week in a post called "The Emerging Church: You Say Dump It" and why he is not going to be using the terms emerging or emergent any longer. Bob Hyatt from Portland blogged about the same topic in his post called "Look who's done with words like "Emergent"". I really respect both of these guys and I found myself very interested with what they said and about why they aren't using the terms any longer. Jason Clark, a prominent voice from England is indicating his focus of moving "Beyond Emergent and Emerging Church".

The term "emerging church" isn't new, it was used for a book called "The Emerging Church" in 1970 by Bruce Larson and Ralph Osborne. I have read that book and it was mainly about change needed in the church for the advancement of the gospel in the "emerging" world of 1970. When I wrote the book of the same name in 2003, that was pretty much the same thing but 33 years later. There will always be change needed in the church for the mission we are on as different time periods of history emerge and cultures change and develop. Perhaps in 33 more years the term will resurface again and someone who is 5 years old right now will write a book caled "The Emerging Church" about what is "emerging" and changing in the mission of the church in the year 2042.

Whether it is the emerging culture of 1970 or 2003, it is exciting and thrilling to think and pray about what we can do by the power of the Spirit on the mission Jesus sent us on in Matthew 28:18-20, Acts 1:8 etc. That is what the "the emerging church" was about to me and why I got originally involved.

Jesus Is My Friend

I am not a dancer. I was a drummer and sitting behind the drum set is where I would be. But this song makes me want to dance uncontrollably and even start a safe with no injury thrashing mosh pit.

Complementarian viewpoint and Sarah Palin

I have watched the news reports on CNN about Sarah Palin and the debates about her experience which are understandable. Although it is only very early after the announcement of her running with John McCain, I have seen or read about the immediate and enthusiastic responses from conservative Christians due to her stances on important values and family issues, abortion etc. and of course excitement about her Christian background. I personally am in agreement with what I am hearing (at least so far) about the stances on these particular issues, but I look forward to hearing what her responses will be about the huge issues about the economy, the environment, global relationships/foreign policies etc.

It is dawning on me however, as I have been reading some blogs and hearing which Christian leaders are excited about her - many of them are from conservative complementarian churches. Which means as they are enthusiastic about her becoming vice president and making incredibly important decisions for our country for both men and women and make speeches and lead - she couldn't teach in most of their pulpits, or be an elder or pastor in their church and make decisions and lead both men and women in a church setting.

Emerging and Emergent Distinctions

For some it doesn't matter, for others it does.

Scot McKnight (who has an excellent, excellent and challenging book coming out soon, The Blue Parakeet) wrote in the latest edition of Christianity Today (September 2008, page 60):

"I maintain a crucial distinction between two related streams: emergent and the broader emerging movement. Emergent is crystallized in Emergent Village and its leaders Brian McLaren, Tony Jones, and Doug Pagitt. Emerging is a mix of orthodox, missional, evangelical, church-centered and social justice leaders and lay folk. When I think of this broader emerging movement, I think of Dan Kimball at Vintage Faith Church in Santa Cruz, Dave Dunbar at Biblical Seminary in Hatfield, Pennsylvania, Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch and their book The Shaping of Things To Come, and Donald Miller's Blue Like Jazz."

Scot is going to be part of shaping a new network being formed right now, which I will be sharing more of as it develops. But I am curious if others agree with Scot about this distinction and the importance of it or not.

From talking to Scot, I know that we both feel that the urgency of the gospel need in our world today is far more significant and important than making distinctions about terminology like this. But I do get asked a lot about this, so as petty as words may be - it does become an issue in discussions. I thought the quote from this new article is worth attention and discussion. If anyone has any personal questions for me, I am always happy to answer them about any of this.   

Fun thingz in Atlanta and my incredible respect for the 7/22 staff

  I just got back from 2 days in Atlanta where I was part of Northpoint Church-Buckhead Church's Tuesday night young singles gathering 7/22.

7/22 was started in 1995 by Louie Giglio. A few years ago Jarrett Stevens (who has an excellent book out called The Deity Formerly Known As God) took over the leadership of 7/22. I am guessing there were 1,200 people there - it was hard to tell as it was such an incredible and gigantic sanctuary at the Buckhead campus. This summer they had 3 authors come to 7/22 (myself, W.Paul Young who wrote The Shack, and Margaret Feinberg) and it was an interview and casual format where they had the books for 7/22 to read and then we were there and Jarrett would ask questions.

You can view the video of last night here and it has the whole evening with Charlie Hall (who was leading musical worship) and Jarrett and me doing the interview.

Louie Giglio was actually there last night and we chatted in the room where the band and 7/22 staff meets to go over the night and pray. Louie and the Passion team have been literally traveling the globe lately and he was sharing how amazing it is seeing the hearts of young people worshiping God all over the world. Charlie Hall was the guest musical worship leader for this night and his new CD was released yesterday. I don't listen to a ton of Christian music, but I will say that Charlie's new CD is really powerful in it's message and theme of "The Bright Sadness".

The highlight of this trip for me was hearing the story of why 7/22 is ending next month - I say highlight as the reasons are very missional and very honorable and Kingdom-focused reasons.